Season 2: Episode 37 -Dr. Kevin Schuer and the University of Kentucky

Season 2: Episode 37 - The University of Kentucky

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

pa, students, profession, people, kevin, leadership, program, medicine, curriculum, patient safety, music, university, system, opportunity, patients, clinical, kentucky, clinician, thinking, health

00:01

We respectfully acknowledge the University of Arizona is on the land and territories of indigenous peoples. Today, Arizona is home to 22 federally recognized tribes, with Tucson being home to the autumn and Yockey. committed to diversity and inclusion the university strives to build sustainable relationships with sovereign Native nations and indigenous communities through education offerings, partnerships and community service.

00:36

Welcome to this episode of the PA path podcast, I'm your host, Kevin Lohenry. We're glad you could join us as we seek to better understand the PA profession

00:56

trying to find a way Who said I was good this time it just can't wait. Feelings are much too strong. Promise.

01:20

Welcome back to Episode 37. We're changing things up a little bit today for some fun. Today we get to interview Kevin shore from the shores, which is a band back in the late 90s, early 2000s that had two albums there Trevor album in 1998 step outside and 2001 Kevin is a phenomenal musician, but he's also an incredible leader, and Pa educators. Kevin is the Associate Professor and Director of Graduate Studies at the University of Kentucky College of Health Sciences VA Studies Department. He has instructional responsibilities in a variety of medicine courses, but also as interprofessional education responsibilities within the university. He also has a strong interest in health care quality, patient safety interprofessional education and practice. And he is a national advocate for the profession and former board member with the physician assistant Education Association. Dr. Sher also earned his doctorate in Public Health from the University of Kentucky College of Public Health with an emphasis in Health Management and Policy. And Stephen I enjoy the opportunity to not only listen to some of his favorite music, but also to hear about his path to becoming a PA and about the University of Kentucky PA program. We hope you enjoy it as well.

02:43

Feelings come on my shirt for you oh you could make this drama today we you say right here. You are gonna hear me we go Hey, guys. What's going well,

03:29

thanks for joining us, Kevin. We're really excited to connect with you again. Well, it's

03:33

it's an honor to be here. I know. You're just looking through everybody that you've had on. It's remarkable, you would have even considered asking me to be on. So it's my honor to be here.

03:45

That's very time. Yeah, that's fine. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for joining Steph. and I were really excited to reconnect with you after all those years on the board together and in committees and other things that we've done, like music, and I'm sure we'll get a chance to talk a little bit about that. But let's start with talking about your path to becoming a PA How did you end up joining the PA profession?

04:07

Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for having me. It's I'll take this it's nice to be connected. You know, I liked seeing you guys. But this is this is perfect. So thanks. So how did I get started? Well, you know, I say it this way. I mean, I probably most like you all and most like the folks who listen. I mean, I was always interested in health and the body and and I just always fascinated me as a kid. I like to tinker and do different things. But I always really found the human body just fascinating. I don't know. So I always gravitated to the science courses and did well in those courses. And really, I think my high school and I graduated high school I'll date myself in 1992 And you know, I I don't know how this occurred. But growing up in central Ohio, but I knew about the PA profession back then and hearing about it and didn't really put much thought into it right going in going into college, just excited to go to college. But once I came, I actually went to the University of Kentucky undergrad, and we University Kentucky has one of the oldest PA programs around. And so fortunately for me, when I landed here, I got a full steady dose of, of our program here at the university. Its legacy. So that's when I really started feeling or hearing more about the profession was really through the lens of what UK was doing, and had done. And I always I mean, I guess, going through, I've always was really focused in on medicine and medicine courses, and maybe thinking about pre med biology through my undergrad years. And one little piece of this that probably is worth talent is that, you know, I also was a musician, I thought I wanted to go to school for music and get a music degree. And so I didn't get the music degree. But my brother and I started a band and undergrad. And that sort of, I guess, in a good way sidetracked us for a few years after college doing the music thing, but I was this this profession and caring for people really always was trying to pull me back and call me back into a more formal training. And at the time, you know, then doing the band thing for a few years. And thinking about going back to medical school, you know, for plus probably four or five years and a residency, maybe probably a fellowship knowing me, I mean, you do talk in 10 plus years at that time, I just wanted to really get in and get out. And you know, it's part of the beauty of the profession and the training, you get in and get out. And so it just was a good fit for me personally, at that time in my life, you know, was always a good fit for me just growing up and it just checked all the boxes for me it satisfy the curiosity. I love people. I love talking. I love medicine. And so there's an art to it. So get the left and right side of the brain work. And and so yeah, I mean, it just made good sense to me, at that point in my life to get into PA school. And so, yeah, I'll just stop there. I mean, I can go, I can go on. But that's really how for me was my was my walk.

07:16

And then what led you to your first clinical job and tell us more about that decision? Yeah,

07:21

I guess you would consider me non traditional 30 When I got into PA school, and I think I think a lot of people see the world differently at 25 than the 30. Right. For me, I had family and children. And so, you know, coming out of PA school, I guess. And then also having a background in public health or I already had my master's in public health. I sort of saw everything maybe slightly different than my peers, not in a better way, you know, but just just in a different way. And different priorities. Right. And so a couple months before I graduated PA school, I was connected with a physician who had started a Reza fellowship program with the National Center for patient safety. And it was a year long fellowship opportunity to study more about quality patient safety, and in systems health systems, and 2008. And so Dr. Joe conigliaro is my guy he, he talked me into maybe considering it, and I did it was a year long, and I was getting this sort of deep introduction into quality, patient safety, health systems, how they function, the dysfunction. And then also, I was a brand new PA, so I was able to work clinically. And I worked in emergency medicine sort of part time, and was sort of moonlighting through that whole fellowship program and emergency medicine. So really, really cool. I got to have the clinical experience. And then obviously, the academic experience in quality and safety. So that's that's where I started out,

08:47

that had to be really interesting experience for you to be going through that fellowship through the lens of patient safety, and then also being clinician in the health system that I presume had its own challenges.

08:58

needed care. That's exactly right. I mean, and that's really why I started to consider teaching, I had no formal a lot of us never really had any formal training and being a teacher. But what I recognized you're exactly right, what I recognized seeing all the function and dysfunction, and then understanding of kind of on the front end with the public health background, and then also going through that fellowship, training, quality safety. I was just really seeing all of these things, the shortcomings come sort of come to life and all these how things are so inefficient, and oftentimes leading to dangerous situations. I just wasn't even prepared for that. And the reason I wasn't prepared for that is we really weren't talking about these things in PA school or medical school or you know, so I just I started to think how important it would be for us to least have a discussion around what kind of care we we deserve in our system and how our system might actually we need a system that protects us from us, right? And we oftentimes don't have a system that protects us from us. So All of these things that just sort of converge and I was crazy enough to walk into she's a former dean but the dean at the time of our college within which the PA program is situated and I just had this conversation with her I'd love an opportunity to maybe guest lecturer and and all the faculty knew who I was here to so they afforded me an opportunity to do that. And that's sort of what launched my teaching career I guess

10:32

was timid to me. The thing is Venus cannot be I've walked down this road roads too dark to see as I've come back to you to stay away from me again down this road smood some times in unburied I survived this. Loves after some LSD to all that up see it on

11:08

Sunday. Should I just stick back on all the things that she gave us. Time

11:37

to set a fine. Go. Notice, I like to be side by one to believe. When you sit down in defeat, you won't always win.

12:10

You will tell us a little bit about the University of Kentucky's PA program. We really like to highlight programs and hear a little bit about your program and kind of maybe what sets your program apart you think from other programs. And certainly any advice that you have four potential applicants.

12:26

Yeah. So you know, the universe Kentucky is been around since 1974 or five. That's an old program. And there's some beauty in that. And in terms of you know, we're established. We've been around we've been at the table, I've worked with some colleagues who had served the program for like 30 years, so I was able to learn under them. We have a rural campus, it was a was best not originally how it was set up. But about the time we switched over to a graduate program back in the late 90s. The state of Kentucky found it important for us to or for someone to develop a program where we would train local sort of rural local students in that environment so that we could move them out into rural parts of the state to meet all the healthcare needs, right, because rural medicine and urban medicines different we just see different things. We're resource differently. And so, so the university and the state government saw that as an opportunity for us to have a rural campus and in Morehead Kentucky. And it's about 6065, almost 70 miles east of Lexington, which is Lexington is right in the middle of the state. And what a fascinating opportunity for us to be right in the middle have a have a satellite part of our program in an area of the country that I would really I would argue rival some of the most underserved, most distressed in terms of chronic disease you could find, and unfortunately you Kentucky's sort of infamous for a lot of these chronic diseases and behavioral patterns that you'll manifest chronic disease. So we have about 15 Students roughly every year in that campus and about 40 some odd students here on our Lexington campus. And yeah, so maybe step that's what really makes one of the things that makes our program unique that we're established, we have a rural campus with sort of an emphasis on on rural medicine. And then maybe the other thing that we've sort of been known for, it's really because of people like David Ferengi, who's been been here for a long, long time. A lot of folks know David, David was always very active in international rotations. And so we will always get students to apply to the program wanting to take advantage of international rotations and David has friends and consequently now we all have friends all over the world. And that really sets us sets us apart from a lot of other programs. You may not be able to do stuff like that. So it's a great place to work. It's we have great students and yeah, just fortunate to have been here for about 14 years.

15:01

So tell us a little bit about the curriculum as you know how it's structured and what a student's expectation might be coming into your program.

15:09

Yeah, I think the hardest thing about PA school is getting in. And so a lot of people say that I mean, probably y'all can attest to that. It's a difficult but once you're in, I don't think our homeopathic our curriculum is very similar to a lot of places where, where you have this, right, as you come in, you have a sort of foundational basic science, a lot of basic science work on the front end anatomy, physiology, pathophysiology, right, and then we sort of ramp it up into clinical medicines, courses, then we have physical exam courses and pharmacology, and then it continues to spike a spiral up until right before our students go out on to the their clinical rotations. You've you've had a steady dose of not only basic science, but also understanding learning clinical medicine. So yeah, so the didactic our whole entire programs two and a half years. So all of that's pretty standard. There's a lot of programs that have sort of that, I guess, framework that they operate out of their, their curriculum, some of the things that I think make our curriculum unique is we've really started to talk to our students, more and more and more about leadership and interprofessional education. So it's not really in response to two accreditation standards. I mean, certainly won't. We want to make sure that we're addressing standards obviously do but I think it was the impetus of of putting more leadership and interprofessional education sort of training, if you will, really was driven largely from the science one. And then to that, you know, a lot of our patients expect me I work in internal medicine and others who work in medicine, they really expect us to be collaborative with, with the social worker with the physical therapist with the physician, right? There's an expectation there. But yet, this was yet another area that we really didn't have a whole lot of instruction. And we never had really a lot of conversation around. What does it look like academically, let's talk about how that might look and why it's important. And so the university has been super supportive, and really well known for interprofessional education work. And so I think our program is our curriculum has been the recipient of a lot of resources around IP E. And I think that was that separates us out maybe from other places that it's hard to find the time to do that, and the resources to be able to pull off into professional activities so that our students have really enjoyed what we offer them here in terms of IP, and then the leadership piece is starting to develop I plan on talking to maybe both y'all about that at some point from a curriculum standpoint. But But yeah, just gives you a little flavor for for our and then of course, I didn't touch on clinical rotations, but pretty standard across the board. We do have we've fiddled with our elective rotations. Again, this is a over the years we've offered students to go and participate on their internal medicine rotation overseas have we've created academic electives for students that might be interested in teaching. And so those have been really interesting and fun. We've tried leadership, elective rotations for students who are interested in in leadership opportunities and connected them with health administration. So yeah, so a unique curriculum and in a few regards. So yeah, I may give you a little bit of a sense for what we do.

18:28

So I'm interested in kind of exploring that leadership piece a little bit more, you mentioned that both in incorporating it in a didactic curriculum and then as well as some opportunities in the clinical curriculum. Certainly, you know that that's a that's a passion of both Kevin Lo, Henry's I am, I'm on with the two infamous the two Kevin's I have to be specific about this. I'm so honored today to be on with the to Kevin's, when we think about leadership and kind of the future of our profession. Tell me a little bit about kind of the impetus of wanting to incorporate more of that leadership into the curriculum, both in the didactic and the clinical phase, particularly as as we kind of look forward in where our profession is

19:07

headed. Yes. DEF. So, such a great question. You know, for me, it's, you know, honestly start with what is leadership? And, you know, what does it look like in the clinical arena, what's needed in the clinical arena front and in terms of a leader, and I think their traditional leader is, you know, some someone who's deep in administration making decisions sometimes in a solo capacity or may bring around an executive team and, you know, honestly, for us and for our students, I think when we talk about leadership, I think we're really starting with Are you emotionally intelligent, how would you know, you know, what, what are what are the what are the attributes of leadership that we feel is really important to help patients change behavior, you know, like, that's one of the most difficult things that we do in medicines, getting someone to stop smoking or or losing weight and we know this things matter. So the the emotional intelligence, the communication piece, I mean, leaders have to be very, very communicative, very high level they need to rally teams, you know, it's it's less about them and more about how do they how do they put people around patients so that patients can thrive and be healthy? You know. So I know I'm talking about this just sort of sorted out that we've really, really just gone back to the drawing board. So what do we at this point in time, what do we really need in terms of a leader? Like, what does it look like for us? And I think what I've seen in clinical leadership is, what we've done is, is we find those great clinicians, and we promote them to administrative roles, and then we're not when we're sort of surprised that when they, when they ascend to these administrative roles, that it may or to run health systems or whatnot, that it doesn't necessarily work out just sort of a head scratcher. For me, it's it makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's just never, the skills aren't compatible, right? I mean, the skills to be a really great clinician and someone you can count on, don't it's not a one to one thing that then you can run a department or run a health system, right. And so what's the DIS so we've sort of dug into so what what, what is it then what are we what are we looking for? And so and so to your point into your question stuff about developing courses in our curriculum, I mean, we've got, everybody's got this jam packed curriculum, it's very difficult to figure out where to, and what to do and how to do it anything extra. But we know that there does need to be some some didactic, if you will, instruction, or small group thinking whatever, in some kind of application that also needs to happen on the clinical side of things. And I know there's folks listening and programs out there that have done this, well, please email me, but I mean, we're really, we're really just trying to explore this right now. And we know how desperately important it is for our students to who are interested in leadership, what it looks like, what we expect, and maybe how to do it.

22:00

Speaking of leadership, let's talk about your leadership, you have a demonstrated record of leadership within our profession. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that about what led you into leadership positions within the profession and in in your personal life, and kind of what what you have gained from that and how you feel like you've been able to contribute back to the PA

22:19

profession? Well, I'll just start by saying, thinking back through all of the different opportunities that I've had, I'm just, I'm just grateful. And never did I ever sort of think that it was like I was earning these things. You know what I mean? Like I, it's maybe sounds strange to some of us, but it honestly it just it, but it's not to say that it just just sort of poof happened either, right. But there's this in with as much gratitude as I have, I've just been able to take advantage of some opportunities. But, you know, sort of thinking about how those things happened. I guess the attribute that that comes out is I was just always curious. Number one, and I like people, I like connections with new and Kevin and others. I just and because I'm always just I know, I can learn stuff from people. And so I just have always been that way. And, you know, just to be real, concrete about this. I mean, I think once I once I found sort of a niche, then patient safety, and, and healthcare quality that did, I guess, Separate me out from maybe my other colleagues who were just going into practice medicine. So I was I did have something that was maybe unique that I that I really loved, I never was going to use that to wedge myself into leadership opportunities. But I recognized that was different, I was the only pa at the time to have taken advantage of that National Fellowship opportunity. So because of that I met a lot of folks at APA was on the quality care committee, the former quality care committee for the APA, and just was with people of like minds who had similar interests, who maybe had done more work in the quality and safety arena that were pas. And so I had a natural affinity there. And then, of course, with just meeting more people and connections, I'm just thinking of all the faces and the names of folks that I started to meet. It just sort of happened really quickly that I met a lot of people and I would just keep asking them what they do. And I was honored to serve the VA board for five years it was supposed to be for I got an extra year on our walk. I think I want a coin flip. We're trying to figure out term limits. But But wow, what a great opportunity that was to be at that table with conversations with both of you over the years, around big, big things. And so, so yeah, and then all of that to say is so for me, in what I do professionally. So all of the things that I've done leadership wise have helped me to become, you know, a better teacher, a better listener, a better advisor, a better sort of administrator for are the things that that I have direct influence over within the department? So yeah, so although I don't necessarily look for leadership opportunities, there are a few that I would aspire to. But I think just the attributes of just always being curious and making connections with people that those things really matter, they have helped me over over the years.

25:23

Kevin, when we look at applicants and programs are considering applicants for the PA profession. I would argue historically, for many, many years, we limited ourselves as a profession, because we were just looking for people that really wanted to take great care of people. And we're good team players and, you know, really wanted to be clinical pas, whereas perhaps some other professions, were we're looking at a diversity of passions differently. I think we're, I think we're moving in that direction more. But as you think about this leadership curriculum at the University of Kentucky, what are the what are some of those changes that the application process may show for applicants that are interested in participating in leadership opportunities? What are maybe ways that they can set themselves apart and be a stronger applicant for you?

26:12

Well, let me speak to what you just said. Because I 100% agree with you. Right, and thank goodness that we are starting to have a health system that's populated with practitioners that just aren't all chemistry and biology majors. Like I was a biology major, I'm not, I'm not hanging on those I. But you know, there is a certain sort of mindset approach, thinking, communication style with with folks that are really good in in those disciplines. And the fact of the matter is, our health system is full of patients that have people that have all kinds of different backgrounds. And so this relatability, it needs to be there. And so, to your point, I mean, musicians, folks that are interested in engineering, you know, but also have having to ensure somewhere that, you know, they, through prerequisites or otherwise, that you can, we're not going to set them up for failure by having them come into a program and not be ready for, you know, big physiology pharmacology courses. But I love that point. And another thing that I think we're so proud of our program over the years, and I won't take the credit, there's other folks here that need to take the credit for designing our admissions process that is a holistic, holistic approach. And I know that that's been challenging all across the board, what is a holistic admissions approach? That what are you measuring? But for us? That is one way that we can, to your to your question, and to your point out, that is one way that we've been able to find those students who, yeah, they're interested in sciences and healthcare, but they also have these great, great passion and interests, that you wouldn't necessarily think, line up with a career in medicine, but students that are English majors or poets, or I like to talk right and left brain, I mean, these folks that are real, real creative, we need those folks in medicine, we need those people caring for people. And so I think a holistic admissions process, although not perfect, allows us to, to maybe find those, versus a system that was really an admissions process that's built solely objectively on on numbers, GPAs and GRE scores, etc. So

28:24

and have you found, you know, I think as you think about patient safety, one of the things I recall, as our profession began to include patient safety and the accreditation standards, it was shocking to me how many people are negatively impacted in our health system annually from errors from medical errors. And I think, you know, part of the crux of interprofessional education is to break down silos and improve communication and part of our systems based approach to teaching about health systems is to help us recognize where there are challenges in the system that impact patients in a in a negative way, how that intersectionality for you, between your patient safety, passions, and kind of the evolution of education? How has it impacted both you and your program?

29:12

Yeah, so it's, well, I mean, it's impacted me. Because, you know, I, as a clinician, I've been right there. I've been right there, where the system sort of conspires against you, and you're like, How in the world did this happen? You know, I've had stories, as many people do, within my family about care that may have gone sideways or not the way that they wanted, and, and then again, referencing the data. I mean, I think British medical journals put something out five, six years ago that harm unintentional harm from accessing the medical system was the third leading cause of death. How is that even possible? Right? The Institute of Medicine put out a report in the late 90s. To err is human and actually that that report really set set us on a path For the conversation around patient safety, and they report Around 100,000 people a year die from, from unintentional medical harm. And as we all know that probably and that number is probably vastly underestimated now. So it's just why we the question of why and how has always been curious to me so, so I know I see it as a clinician, always trying to, to envision a system that's protecting us from us. But then also, it's, it's great for me, because I do have, I guess, sort of expertise in that area, I've been published a little bit in it, I've had extra training, I am a clinician, I've seen the quote unquote, fires in patient care, and then I'm able to sort of try to have a conversation with our students about that, and students that may or may not have a whole lot of clinical exposure experiences in you know, some may find it hard to believe that these things actually really do happen. And so I teach a course in health systems where we talk about that, because I think we're of the opinion that in this program, that in order for our students to thrive in the health system, as practitioners, we think it's been, it's it's important that our students understand the system within which they're going to work, you know, not just from the reimbursement side, but you know, systems of care, how it works. All the disparities that we see, that have been created over the years, how are how does that affect the patient? Or what can you do as a provider to limit not only harm but just disparities that are occurring and it just seems like without even thinking about it, these things happen. So we try to really teach that from an academic standpoint, when our students come in here and then we also again, from an academic standpoint, really walk them through as they get more and more learned up I guess on medicine and then also get more and more patient experience through the rotations we bring back activities for them to think through in terms of pain was anybody harms? Do you ever see anybody harmed you see where care sort of broke down? And why did that happen? To hopefully better prepare them to get out and be effective and efficient and patient centered when they get out of our program

32:20

it's almost like you're preparing them to wear a different set of goggles to see the world through so that's that's great.

32:51

traveling miles and why nots behind milling face can place a name I lose track of time recognize that isn't quite clean there seems to be too much confusion stop.

34:00

Let's shift to something a little bit more enjoyable for you, which is your music career. You know, as I think about my own experiences in hospitals and health systems, it was always astounding how many physicians also played instruments? Yeah. And you know, there was a general surgeon at my first hospitals a PA that started a band that played in the county fair every year. And it seems to be a good outlet for the scientific folks to have that that other side of the brain be engaged. You are the only pa in the country that I'm aware of. That actually can be found with a couple of albums on Spotify. You've got Trevor in 1998 and step outside in 2001. With your, your band. Do you want to talk a little bit about the music in those albums and kind of where you're at with your music these days?

34:46

Like I probably need to start to check for that that nice. I mean, I can't I can't think you know, I mean

34:58

yeah, I mean PDA should be supporting pas is the perfect opportunity. So it's

35:03

so funny. Well, no, you're, you're a great musician in your own. Right. So that was let's just get that out there too. Yeah, I mean, apart from there, you know, it's just, musics always been a big part of my life, it's a big part of my identity. And the people that know me know that it's something that's different, right? And that everybody you know, I get that it's something that's a little intriguing. I also get that, but it is a huge part of, of what makes me who I am. Always have been, I just remember I don't want to go, I don't want to do the, I'm going to take you back over the net last 40 years, but my parents just weren't me. Musical, but they love good music. And I just You couldn't you couldn't get away from it in our house, they would always have music on and I just for some reason, I was just bitten by it early on. And and I'm fortunate to have two awesome brothers one of which I'm just 11 months older than and so Jamie and I just would do everything together probably still do everything together to my to our wives chagrin, if you will. But but but we started a band just messing around in college started a band and it just yeah, it couple of our friends and then their friends, friends and more friends. And so the next thing you know, it's it's, it's like a small business when you're in college, and you know anything about medicine, I think having earned a college degree is probably inversely inversely related to your success as a musician, right? So you don't necessarily need a an undergraduate college degree to be a rock star. So we we did that for I did earn a degree. But yeah, we did it for a few years and met a lot of great people have a lot of great stories you can imagine. But I still still am active in the community terms of music, Kev, you and I have done stuff and being silly. So it's, yeah, I can I can make the connection between what I do here and music very easily. I mean, it's just been a lot of fun. And I've again, I've met a lot of people, I'm always meeting people that remembered when we played around here, which is always interesting. But yeah, I've had a and all the students, the students have fun with that, too. I'm sure

37:29

you can. You can still find some Kevin shore outtakes on on YouTube, I believe. So if you're looking. If you're looking to see somebody have fun playing music, definitely check them out. Thanks, Kevin.

37:40

Appreciate that. And I think Kevin's Kevin's being pretty humble in you know, saying that he's an okay musician. He's actually a fantastic musician. So if you, if you find if you find the time to Google him, please, please give it a listen. Because you won't be sorry.

37:55

It's a great yeah. And and my students, the students that we teach won't be sorry, either. They just absolutely love it. That I that's what I do. They just they just eat that up. Actually, to be honest, I think it makes there is this relatability piece to that I think is is helpful when they're getting into PA school. And they find that, you know, their professors didn't just go to school for 100 years and do nothing else. There are things that we do that make us who we are. So they love it.

38:29

You know, students are always looking. Sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. Students are always looking for ways to kind of, you know, make learning easier Have you have you started assisting them with, you know, putting learning theories, mnemonics things like that to music yet so that they can help you? You know, remember these?

38:48

Yeah, you know, if you're stiff, you're like the, honestly, like the 10th person that has told me I am I'm absolutely missing out by not bringing a guitar to class and doing this. I don't think I know the answer. The question is no, I've not done it. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I guess we'll see. I don't know how that

39:16

I have a great friend who's a math teacher and he puts all kinds of things, all kinds of math concepts to music and his two of my children still to this day, remember all the lyrics to those so I snack? I think, you know, as far as committing really important concepts to memory long term, I think putting it to music. I mean, how many of us don't still hear music, you know, a song from the 80s or the 70s the words just come right out right when you're thinking and I still say that that's the reason that I don't remember all the important things in my life because my head is cluttered with AC 80s Music lyrics. So I think there's something to that, but you know, we just put really important things to music. I think those I think those concepts will stick with us. I think we need to consider

40:00

I'm totally missing out. And I know that that that would be something that they would never ever forget just for one, it'd be just so off the wall corny, but to to your point, like, we could talk about this. I mean, when a song comes on those lyrics just come out like that. And they're never gonna they're never going to remember a what I think a great lecture might have been, but they'd always remember the the experience of right of just sitting around playing guitar with Dr. Shuar.

40:27

Yeah, so we'll see, we'll see if paid to play. So you should just do that. Yeah, Drew stuff?

40:33

Well, Kevin, we always like to kind of close with giving our guests an opportunity to just really share any other thoughts or ideas that they felt like they wanted to chat about before before we close out. So is there anything that we didn't cover today that you wanted to talk about?

40:47

Wow, well, again, guys, I know both of you. And I respect the absolute heck out of both of you. And I just can't wait to to see you all next, really. And whoever's listening the similar. I that's, that's really one of the beautiful things about being a PA educator, and we talked about this at the board is the hug factor. At our end, John Bowser, Colorado knows I'm talking about the board does the hug factor with the P educators like off the charts. And so I think the only thing that I would say is, apart from Thank you, and it's been a real privilege to be here is, I always try to take a minute to remind people I don't need to remind you, but just to call it out that, you know, we our world is is interesting place. And I think educators get this in general, but just to just to love and encourage on people I think goes a long way opening doors for people and saying thank you. And all of those things. I think, as we sort of are trying to reenter into a different world, after the pandemic, that's what I'm trying to say, remind myself every morning is, especially with the students that that we have, that are getting younger and younger, and we're getting older and older, is all of the things that they're trying to face and work through. In this world. It's challenging, and so we just try to love on them as much as we can. And it's a real thing. And I'm really proud of the folks that I work with here who do that every day. And I know you guys do the same thing. And so thank you guys for for being who you are doing this. I think this has been great.

42:24

Kevin, thanks so much for joining us today and for sharing your thoughts and great ideas and for letting us hear a little bit about the University of Kentucky. Hopefully, any students who are thinking about the university got a little bit of insight into the program and are even more excited about applying to your program. So thanks for your service to our profession and for all the fantastic music you've shared with us and the fellowship and we hope to, as you said, we hope to we hope to share hug again soon. Absolutely. Yeah, thanks.

42:55

Well, we want to thank our guest, Dr. Kevin shore for joining us today to share about his path to becoming a PA to share about the University of Kentucky PA school and to share about his impressive music career. We're going to provide a few video links to Kevin singing some cover songs with the Lexington lab band on our website, Pa path podcast.com We would definitely recommend you check it out. Especially his cover of Bill Withers used me which is quite incredible. Tune in next week as we speak with Dr. Brian Lof. from the University of Nevada Reno. Brian talks to us about his path to becoming a PA Nevada state and national leadership roles and about the developing program up in Reno and one of the most beautiful parts of the country. We're going to sign out with a song by of the shores called strange world.

44:06

Again, down the road so tired, seem away. The sun was shining embarrassed me you could not use smile and that feeling shook his head and said this is Thomas Bedford is a strange, strange strange strange world

44:34

ChemiCon you

44:37

such a strange strange world strange strange

45:04

Till next time we wish you success with whatever path you are walking in life. And thank you for joining us. The purpose of this podcast is to provide news and information on the PA profession and is for informational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and guests and do not necessarily reflect the official position or policy of the University of Arizona.